1. Call Meeting to Order
Mayor Havens called the meeting to order at
2. Roll Call
Members Present: Mayor Edward Havens
Deputy Mayor John Pelkey
Councillor William Aman
Councillor Thomas Delnicki
Councillor Judith Paquin
Councillor Elizabeth Pendleton
Councillor Matthew Streeter
Councillor Roseann Williams
Also Present: Town Manager Matthew B. Galligan
Absent: Councillor Deborah Fine
Town Attorney Barry Guliano
3. Public Participation - None
4. Communications - None
5. Town Manager's Report - Reserving report for Regular Meeting.
6. Items for Discussion
A. Possible Changes in In-Kind Funding for Probate Court
Mr. Galligan prefaced this report by saying that there are many recent changes in the Probate Court system. Not only did he express concern with the increased cost to municipalities these changes could result in, but added that, present this evening to discuss her concerns and explain the changes being proposed, was East Windsor/South Windsor Probate Judge Marianne Lassman Fisher.
ITEM:
5. A. (Continued)
Judge Lassman Fisher stressed that one of the issues that came to light through these efforts to reorganize the Probate System is the "lack of understanding of how the Probate Court System works." She agreed that it was quite a complicated system. Details she provided to support this confusion were the facts that: (1) there are 123 Probate Courts in Connecticut-some encompassing large communities and others encompassing small Towns-all of which operate under the "Probate Assembly" and are overseen and organized by the "Probate Court Administrator;" and (2) each Court's income is derived from its "fees." She then explained the fee schedule and when and where it applied.ply. Explaining what the Probate Court "does," Judge Lassman Fisher said they administer estates,
appoint conservators, appoints guardians, terminate parental rights of negligent parents; perform adoptions; etc.
Explaining further, the Judge said that the income derived from these fees is used to pay: (1) the Judge's salary (which is based upon a statutory formula); (2) the salary of the clerks in her office; and (3) miscellaneous items of expense with the Court. The balance of remaining fee monies is turned over to the Probate Court Administrator (referred to as the "Probate Administration Fund").
The Judge added that all 123 Courts are doing the same thing; and that combined and resultant large sum of money is used to fund the entire system. The East Windsor/South Windsor Probate Court, she added, is "a substantial Court"-with a combined population of almost 36,000 people; and a Court that "sends in significant amounts of money every year."
Over the course of the last couple of years, according to the Judge, and in year 2003, only three (3) out of the 123 Courts needed a subsidy from that "big" fund to continue operation. The Courts, she continued, were told last April by the Chief Justice that he had been evaluating the overall Probate Court System-and that this System needed repair!
ITEM:
5. A. (Continued)
Judge Lassman Fisher said that the "message" she received from this evaluation by the Chief Justice was that there were problems with, for instance-(1) Judges salaries and the fact that many Judges (including herself) are part-time employees of the System; (2) there were problems with the fact that there is no real oversight of how the Probate Courts are staffed or how this staff is paid. As a result, she added, the cost of operation of the overall Court system are increasing, and something has to be done about it.
Continuing, Judge Lassman Fisher reported that, In view of the above, the Probate Court Administrator (who works for the Chief Justice) proposed a "plan;" and, on October 4, 2004, the Judges were given a copy of that plan. The plan proposes three things, she said: (1) that the Probate Court System is losing money and will be out of money by the year 2008 because operating expenses are rising, and income is "remaining flat."
Overall, according to Judge Lassman Fisher, income for the Probate Court system has remained "flat" for over two years. She felt that one overriding reason was that the "market" has dropped because people who are passing away have died with less income because of those assets being reduced.
"Operating expenses" have definitely gone up, according to the Judge; however, of those expenses, $1.5 million is directly attributable to the Probate Court Administrator's Office, and only $500,000 attributable to the overall expenses of the 123 Probate Courts themselves.
The real problem, according to the Judge, is the solution to all of this-that is, to maintain the current 123 Courts, and shift the burden of expense of operating the Courts from the Courts themselves (which, incidentally, have operated their Courts at a profit for many years) to the municipalities. She added that the East Windsor/South Windsor was one of the few Courts that would be picking up the "tab" for operating the Probate Courts.
Judge Lassman Fisher explained that that the way the plan works is that if you are a Court system of 50,000 or more population, the Probate Court Administrator's Fund will pay all of the expenses of operating the Courts. However, she continued, if you are a Court, comprised of five (5) municipalities and have a total population of 10,000 or less, all of the expenses of Court operations will be paid from the Administrator's Fund.
ITEM:
5. A. (Continued)
If you fall between these two categories, according to the Judge, your Town will subsidize the Court. The income from the Courts (last year the East Windsor/South Windsor Probate Court generated $154,683 in income) all of which will go to the Probate Court Administrator's Fund. The expenses that the Judge use to pay from that income will now be shared at the rate of 2/3rds of the cost by the municipality, and 1/3rd by the Administrator's Fund. Consequently, she added, her operating expenses to run her Court, fulltime, and with two (2) employees and herself, and including a health insurance contribution from her and the two clerks totaling $11,364.00, was $141,000.
Under this plan, she would send to the Probate Court Administrator $154,600; and the Town would pay 2/3rds of $141,000, and the Probate Administrator would return 1/3rd of that $141,000. This results in a significant impact on our municipality-an impact not shared by all Towns (an aspect of this plan she felt was peculiar)-for instance, if you live in Greenwich, your municipality does not have this burden; however, if you live in South Windsor, it does.
The Probate Judges had hoped that, if a "revamping" of the Court system was needed, it would address the things that needed revamping. For example, she said, the Judges' salaries. These salaries, the Judge explained, are driven by State Statute; and there are five (5) methods of payment of a Judge's salary-the formula for these methods being so complicated, according to Judge Lassman Fisher, that she still does not understand it, even after two years.
The Judges' salaries are determined by such activities as "weighted workload;" income of the Court; etc. Most Judges agree, she said, that this needs to be "fixed;" that it needs to have a rational basis. For example, if you live in a very wealthy community, the Probate Judge there could be earning significant dollars because the income of the Court is large. Conversely, if you work in a community that is not wealthy, you could be earning significantly less-regardless of the fact that you may be doing just as much work because of the time spent on issues concerning children, or issues that arise because of the poverty of the community, etc.
ITEM:
5. A. (Continued)
"Staffing" of these facilities, the Judge felt, was something else that needed addressing. There are no rules or regulations governing how many employees each Court can have; or, at the end of the day, how much they are paid. In some cases, according to Judge Lassman Fisher, she has witnessed where, in general, the "clerks" of these Courts are paid less than the clerks of the Town Halls (according to CCM studies) in most cases; and in some cases paid "outside" what they should be paid.
The amount of staffing, the Judge reported, is totally up to the Judge. Under the present system, she gave as an example, she could chose to dismiss one of the Clerks and take that income to herself. This, she felt, should not be allowed. What should happen is that the Court should be funded, and staffed, as a whole-and in an equitable fashion.
Most Judges thought that this was what this reorganization plan was going to be. Instead, she said, it was the plan she had previously described to Council-one where the burden is shifted to a small number of Courts. The income derived from these Courts will not go to reimburse their respective Town/Towns for the cost for providing this system; but, instead, will go to the Probate Court Administrators Fund-the central fund to fund other Courts.
Continuing, Judge Lassman Fisher now reported that, since the plan originally came out, there has been a change-there is another aspect. The Probate Court Administrator's Plan is to create "specialty courts" which will do the sme thing that we do, only somewhere else. These "specialty courts" will be funded by monies received from Courts such as ours.
To date, according to the Judge, the Courts have been operating at a significant gain for many years. Consequently, she added, she was surprised to see these predictions of failing income over the course of the next few years. She reported that, as of the year 2002, the balance of the Probate Court Administrator's Fund was $30,000,000; in the year 2003, $15,000,000 of that fund balance was turned over to the State of Connecticut to reduce the deficit.
ITEM:
5. A. (Continued)
it has been predicted that in the year 2009, the system "will run out of money-all things being equal." The Judge stated that she felt any system will run out of money by 2009 if you don't change it. What she was saying was that "We need to change this system; we need to do it right; and we need to have a rational basis for what we're doing so that in 2009 this doesn't happen. However, she added, to reorganize it in this light simply casts a big burden on some municipalities and not others-one of which is South Windsor.
Judge Lassman Fisher then referred to information contained in the material she had provided to the Council Members prior to this evening's meeting-particularly, weeksheet depicting the income of the Courts and what their expenses have been for the years 2003 and 2004.
Her final statement was that the Probate Assembly of Judges rejected, by vote, this plan in November of 2004, saying (for many of the reasons she has previously stated) it did not support this proposal. Also, what she would like to see done by the Assembly of Judges is work toward a resolution of this problem over the next few months. She did not feel that you take a 300 year old Court system, and "turn it upside down" in two months.
Concluding, the Judge said that the problem, in her mind, was that this system "heads toward a regionalization and centralization of these Courts. She also stressed that if anyone were to spend any time in her Court, and like Courts, they would realize that these are Courts that people come into without attorneys, without feeling intimidated, and ones where the clerks can sit with a widow or widower and work through the "filing of an estate."
Also, according to the Judge, because they don't have that "regionalized/central Superior Court system in place, they give the user a place to go where things can be resolved in a ready and speedy fashion-oftentimes, without the use of an attorney.
ITEM:
5. A. (Continued)
Mayor Havens thanked Judge Lassman Fisher for her report; and stated that she had given the Council a complicated problem. However, if this new plan was going to cost the community any money, "that would be the first objection" to it. The second objection, he stated, was the elimination of our local East Windsor/South Windsor Probate Court system-the loss of its personal touch in this community. He then asked the Town Manager if he had worked out any "numbers" regarding what it might cost the Town under the various scenarios provided by Judge Lassman Fisher.
Mr. Galligan replied that, presently, under this new formula the bottom line (looking at the Town's population-which is now 24,700) they're going to charge $2.00 x 24,700; or, $48,000 which the Court is going to reimburse the Town-or half of what the Town contributes. His estimated a $60,000 cost to the Town going forward.
He felt that what the Administrator's Office was proposing amounted to the same thing as an "unfunded mandate." He provided history related to the phasing out of the "succession tax" and the effects of this action on revenues within the Probate Court system. Mr. Galligan also speculated that it took 15 years before anything substantive was done to come up with a proposal to subsidize this loss. Then, he added in 1997, Probate fees were increased to make up for the loss of revenue.
According to the Town Manager, it was his opinion that the existing problems had less to do with the existing fee system, etc., as much as it had to do with poor administration of the Probate System at the Administrator's level-including no uniformity in salaries or staffing, for instance. He felt that all the proposed plan did was to "pass the burden to the Town."
Mr. Galligan pointed out that if South Windsor loses its Probate Court, our residents would have to go to Manchester. His problem with that, he added, was that East Windsor/South Windsor Probate Court runs a "conservatorship program" with the Town's Human Services Department-a mutual effort involving the Judge and her Court and personnel from the Human Services Department--the purpose of which is to meet the needs and convenience of those residents requiring this service.
ITEM:
5. A. (Continued)
Town staff time, according to the Town Manager is a "hidden cost" here. However, if his Human Services staff had to go to Manchester (or some other location) they're not going to have a Judge who will schedule around their availability-this Judge does accommodate staff's scheduling, thus keeping the Town's costs down and serves our residents "in the most cost-effective way."
Again, Mr. Galligan stressed that he would "hate to loss our Probate Court." If the problem was number of residents, "let's find another Town and get another 10,000 population and become a "regional" Court. He suggested the Chief Justice and/or Probate Court Administrator "take a look at the three (3) Courts with a deficit" and determine what they are doing wrong before penalizing a few of the 120 remaining Courts who are doing things right!
Mayor Havens asked Judge Lassman Fisher if the Probate Judges were taking their cause to the Capitol. The Judge replied that the "Assembly of Judges" does have a lobbyist who has been directed to put forward the position of the Assembly, and not the Probate Court Administrator. Also, she added, they have proposed Legislation that will pass the cost of health insurance on to the State. Also, she added, and increase in fees has been requested-something that has not occurred in seven (7) years; and are fairly low compared to other Court systems.
According to the Judge, she is serving on a committee that is looking at the salaries of Judges and clerks, etc. with an eye to "tightening things up." Another oversight that needs to be addressed, she stated, was appointing someone to take a look at these Courts and suggest ways to establish minimum standards.
Questions followed from the Members of the Town Council.
Councillor Aman, who was elected in November of 2004 to be South Windsor's Connecticut State Representative (and who, this evening, is attending his last meeting as a Town Councillor) reported that since
ITEM:
5. A. (Continued)
becoming State Representative he and Judge Lassman Fisher, and other State Representatives have discussed the dilemma currently facing the Probate Court System. He also informed Council that, at the Judge's request, he and State Senator Gary LeBeau submitted a Bill to the State Legislature (in concept form) that proposes that "local control" of the Probate Court remain an option for the localities. The Bill also proposed, he added, that the Courts continue the way they are now-i.e., financed by the "fees" collected. This, he added, will allow some of the areas that wish to "merge" their Courts to do so.
Continuing, Councillor Aman said that there is also a stipulation included within this proposed Bill allowing the Assembly of Judges (a group not overseen by the Probate Court Administrator) to have time for review and comment on any plan of this nature going before the General Assembly for a vote. He assured the Council that there is still ongoing discussions among some of the Legislators regarding this issue; and the shared feeling regarding these problems within the Probate Court system is that the "solutions" proposed by the Probate Court Administrator's Office, with the concurrence of the Justice Department, go far beyond what is needed to resolve the perceived problems within the system.
Again, and as a follow-up to Council's questions, Judge Lassman Fisher agreed that someone needs to be looking out for what the Judges are doing; and should be exercising control over salaries and the operations of the Courts. However, she added, the proposed plan does not do that. She said she was surprised to find how conscientious and hard-working the majority of these Probate Judges were, and the level of empathy they carried with them.
Judge Lassman Fisher again reminded those listening that there are 123 Probate Judges; some or all of whom could change every four years-and, finally, "the community puts those people there; and, the community should have the decision about when that Judge leaves." By forcing this 'regionalization,' she felt the proposed changes would override "the will of the people which is to elect these Judges and put them in place."
ITEM:
5. A. (Continued)
It was agreed that the Council should take a stand on this issue and should communicate that stand to members of the State Legislature. Judge Lassman Fisher was invited to come before Council again to provide an update sometime in the near future; and when asked about the timeframe for resolution of this issue, the Judge said she believed it was currently before the General Assembly. Councillor Aman predicted that it would come to the floor sometime in March of 2005.
With the consent of the Town Council, the Mayor promised a letter to the General Assembly from the Town Council, stating Council's view.
B. Use of Banners at Town's Gateway Areas
Town Manager Matthew Galligan began his remarks by saying that this is a program that he knew the Library Board, and others, had looked at some time ago. It was a program he became aware of when he was in San Diego on a conference and was approached by a company that created these banners. (The Town of West Hartford, Ct., he added, uses this company and does have this program.)
Mr. Galligan stressed that, at this point, nothing has been done because there's a few things "that still have to get done: (1) he will be going to the Planning & Zoning Commission because it is unclear if these "banners" come under the restrictions of P&Z's "sign" regulations; and (2) obtaining the permission of the utility companies to use their poles and areas-including determining the number of poles, and which ones can be used.
Continuing, Mr. Galligan said that he understood that the company will provide the brackets to hang the street banners, at no charge to the Town; and will hang them-also free of charge. The street banners, he added, can be any size the Town requests (he had a sample with him that showed to the Council and the listening audience).
ITEM:
5. B. (Continued)
The Town Manager explained that not all banners had to be sponsored by a business, thus depicting their name or logo-that there is a series of banners referred to as a "museum piece"-a type you might wish to use, for instance, on Main Street, if so desired. This type of banner would promote things like "Scenic Main Street;" or the Concert Series held at Wood Memorial Library; or "We love our Parks," or "Welcome to South Windsor," etc., and would, in this instance, be sponsored by the Town, itself, rather than a business.
Concerns raised by Members of the Council, according to the Town Manager, were (1) what if one industry or business wants to put a banner in front of his competitor-would that be allowed? Mr. Galligan said it would not.
Mr. Galligan explained the different types of contracts that had to be set ukp with the company providing the banners. They included, he added, a "standard print style," "silver," or "gold" or "platinum" depending upon how many banners you wanted. Also, he added, it was his understanding that the business that purchases a street banner get to pick the location (as long as the previously-mentioned restrictions are observed), the service is purchased for one year, after which the business can renew or withdraw from the program, keeping the street banner.
This company, according to Mr. Galligan, has "been around for awhile; it came as a vendor through the ICMA;the cities of New Britain and West Hartford, Connecticut, for instance, use this company. He suggested that, perhaps, the Town Council would like to create a "policy" governing this program, or ask the Economic Development Commission to assume that duty-including the accepted use of the banners, how they're going to be displayed; rules and regulations to the business owners if the Town decides to go ahead with this program.
Another question and concern that has been mentioned is how to regulate the type of company wishing to display a banner. Mr. Galligan admitted that, presently, he was not certain how to regulate that area.
ITEM:
5. B. (Continued)
Mr. Galligan said he would be meeting this Friday with Cate Evans, Executive Director of South Windsor's Chamber of Commerce, on several topics-one of which would be this issue of "banners" to see if the Chamber wished to participate in this program.
Mr. Galligan then asked the Council if they wished to endorse and participate in this program. He stated that the Town Attorney has reviewed the contracts that were sent to the Town and he has no problem with them. If Council is interested, he added, did it wish to set up a subcommittee to review what should be on the banners, etc. He asked for direction.
At 8:00 p;m., Mayor Havens called the Regular Meeting to order; immediately recess it; and reconvened the Work Session.
Mayor Havens, referring to the proposed "banner program, said simple questions such as "what color are they going to be?" "What happens if people don't pay for them?" "What's the message going to be?" "How far up each area of our main thoroughfares are the signs going to hang?" He felt that there would be a multitude of questions; and someone on staff in Planning are going to have to resolve those questions.
The Mayor said he was in favor of the banners; however, the topic was "confusing;" and he didn't want South Windsor to begin to look like a "circus." Mayor Havens felt that there has to be a "uniform set of rules with no special attention to where they hang.
Mr. Galligan replied that the company does have people who would help "design" the banner; most communities would put "welcome to their community" with the Town logo and advertising their business. After mentioning several large cities in the Country with these banners-particularly those cities with Convention Centers-the banners are well done and articulate. The Town Manager reminded Council of the ongoing acceptance of banners at the four-corners-one advertising "Wapping Fair," the "Strawberry Festival," etc. He said that, presently, there is not enough room to accommodate the requests for "banner" space.
ITEM:
5. B. (Continued)
Questions from the Councillors continued regarding the probability of DOT and utility company approval; the involvement of South Windsor's Chamber of Commerce; etc. It was felt that (1) Councillors should be given the opportunity to submit their questions regarding this program, in writing, to the Town Manager for his response; and (2) following his replies to the Councillors, a Resolution regarding the "banner program" should be included on an upcoming Agenda, thus providing Council with an opportunity to vote for or against it.
Questions arose regarding "maintenance" of the banners; where is "downtown South Windsor;" How do you maintain safe driving practices while moving along at 30-40 mph and reading "banners" hanging from poles along main thoroughfares?"
The Town Manager said he would try to provide the answers to Council's questions prior to the next Town Council meeting; and, also, would see to it that a Resolution was included on the Agenda for the next Regular Meeting (February 7).
The Council Members were in general agreement that more information was needed on the banners, the installation program, etc. It was mentioned that South Windsor was a "conservative" Town; and, perhaps, some pictures showing how it would look would be helpful. Another suggestion was that, if South Windsor decided to enter into an agreement for the banner program, that it be on a temporary basis until it could be determined if their appearance, etc. was suitable and compatible with the Town and the image it wished to convey.
Saying that he was speaking for himself, only, Mayor Havens said he was in favor of the banners; however, he asked the Town Manager to address the concerns expressed this evening. Deputy Mayor Pelkey and Councillor Delnicki agreed that a Resolution should be held off until the Town Manager has checked with Planning and Zoning regarding restrictions that might come into play.
ITEM:
7. Executive Session - To discuss pending claims and litigation; and possible
Sale of Land by Town's Redevelopment Agency
Town Manager Matthew Galligan said that, although Atty. Guliano was not present this evening to discuss pending claims and litigation, he wished to discuss another executive session item with Council; and would do so at the end of the Regular Meeting.
8. Motion to adjourn
Deputy Mayor Pelkey moved to adjourn the Work Session at 8:20 p.m.; the Motion was duly seconded; and approved, unanimously.
Respectfully submitted,
Patricia R. Brown
Clerk of the Council
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